Yes yes he didn't kill Killerbee cuz they didn't catch him.
Btw Tobi, Suigetsu, Jugoo and Karin help him that he survive when he fight all kages.
And Itachi didn't wanna kill Orochimaru.

I think you give sasuke to much credit and naruto not enough. Sasuke is definately incredible strong, but I don't think he should be above naruto for strength. Naruto is the first person to perfect sage mode, being able to fight for an extended period of time while keeping a perfect balance of all three chakra types wouldn't be easy. jaraiya needed the help of the two frogs to do it, and even still it wasn't a perfect transformation. I think that naruto in sage mode would have rocked danzo no problem. I mean his speed is doubled, his strength is even greater then tsunades, and he can heal so fast that he can safely use the rasen shuriken as a projectile (which is the attack even the fourth hokage couldn't complete) just using rasen shurikan and sage mode alone is proof that naruto can accomplish anything, they are two of the most difficult S class abilities to perform. Once he learns how to control the nine tails chakra also I think he will take another giant leap and actually be the strongest ninja that ever lived.

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Yeah, I think you are right there, Hitori ! After all he is the main character !

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How can I ever be Hokage, if I can't even save one friend?
Isn't that right Sasuke?

naruto lacks of brain I doubt that he can defeat shinobi like Danzo.Danzo did everything I want to see from Naruto,he fought like real hokage,something what Naruto will never do.
Logically Naruto can never defeat Sasuke with Kyuubi.even Kyuubi admits himself:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/309/04-05/

Kyuubi said:unbeleviable....To think you would even be able to suppress my power

Naruto was defeated by Sasuke once and from the last Kishi's interview we can see that probately he will be defeated again and then the fans who are making a sroryes that Naruto could beat Sasuke at the valley of the end and who dislike him will have to accept that Sasuke is stronger from Naruto.Orochimaru said to Jiraiya that Naruto will nevet beat someone with sharingan and that is the true.

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"Only a Sharingan user with the same blood as me can defeat me."

Itachi had the same points as Jiraiya had according to the databook (35.5 each).

In my eyes, the strongest shinobi to ever exists is Sage of the Six paths.

Top Shinobi's

- Sage
- Hashirama
- Madara
- Naruto
- Tobirama
- Hiruzen
- Pain
- Itachi
- Jiraiya
- Sasuke
- Orochimaru
- Kisame

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Private message me for assistance

The problem with your point is that naruto is at least 5x stronger then before now that he can use nature chakra. Quoting characters or chapters before he obtained that ability doesn't hold very much relevance to his current strength. Also he isn't really the simple minded kid that he used to be, thats been the whole point of the last 100 or so chapters. throughout the entire series naruto has been underestimated by everyone around him and every time someone underestimates him they end up looking the fool when he saves the day. I think that sasuke is very strong, but I will always feel like naruto is the better ninja. sasuke knows how to use the gifts that have been given to him well, but naruto knows what it takes to summon real strength when it is needed. in a true fight to the death sasuke wouldn't be able to last against the current naruto. And when sasuke attacks konoha, assuming naruto is there when he does it, he will realize that he is outclassed by a superior ninja. There is a reason that most of the strongest ninja in history have all put their faith behind naruto (4th hokage, 3rd hokage, Jaraiya, kakashi, and tsunade all believe him to be the ninja worthy of protecting the village. and I'm sure the 1st and 2nd would agree if they were alive)

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Naruto is 5x stronger from before-True but why everyone is forgeting that Sasuke with MS is 20x times stronger from before.Even With his new powers again Naruto can't control Kyuubi and he would never be able to control the Kyuubi unlike Sasuke-I'm Sure that now with his MS he is alredy able to cantrol the 9 tiled foxs.Naruto doesn't have the gift(sharingan) and he would never able to defeat some Uchiha(Sasuke,Itachi,Tobi).Even if 4th,3rd,Kakashi are trying motivate him he can't defeat Sasuke.

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"Only a Sharingan user with the same blood as me can defeat me."

Now to make something clear. Itachi vs Sasuke.
Sasuke cheat.
He come with storm and then he was able to use Kirin.
Now we can see that just Kirin save Sasuke and Eight Headed Snake.
And Itachi survive both.
So i think Sasuke is normal fucking peace of shit. (For me xD)

Your argument holds no ... argument...

gee

Sasuke cheated because he used the tools that he created to attack Itachi. So?

Itachi was stronger then Sasuke, but everyone knows that, he was also 3 years older and used the Sharingan for a very long period of time, unlike Sasuke.


The problem with Naruto is that he still has no defense vs Genjutsu, he might have enough Chakra to dispell most average Genjutsu, but Sharingans Genjutsu are not average, and he can't control the fox, so i'm sure Sasuke can still surpress it, just like he did before.

Naruto = Protagonist
Sasuke = Antagonist
Please do remember this, Naruto will beat Sasuke in the end, but for now Sasuke has the edge.

good point Felatio.
that will be so typical-Good always beats evil and that will be happy end,but from other hand Sasuke is Kishamotos favorite charachter so I doubt sasuke will ever lost a battle also I heard in another topic that someone said:

"when the interviewers ask about Naruto will be Hokage, then Kishi responds : "he should be!" . . . So maybe Naruto will die in that fight !"

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"Only a Sharingan user with the same blood as me can defeat me."

20x is a large exaggeration, he has gotten stronger then he was before though. but he also lost his curse mark abilities. Zetsu even said right after the pain vs naruto fight that naruto was probably stronger then sasuke. and that was sasuke with the MS, being as how zetsu watched both fights I'd say he is a reliable source for knowing who is stronger. Also to felatio who said that naruto can't hold up to genjutsu, I personally have the theory that genjustu wouldn't work against someone in sage mode. To achieve sage mode you mix nature chakra with your regular chakra. genjutsu is manipulating the chakra inside someones body to make them believe they are seeing things that aren't there. but I don't think they anyone would be able to manipulate nature chakra unless they know how to use it in the first place. I'm guessing that that is why it was written that way, so when they do fight it wouldn't be as simple as just using a high level genjutsu on naruto. I still think it will be an epic fight, but in the end naruto is simply the better ninja. The entire storyline is based around the fact that hard work triumphs over natural talent, it wouldn't make any sense for sasuke to end up stronger then naruto.

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Sage Mode may be more resistant, but by no means it should be imune. Sage Mode is a balance of all the Chakra, and since the Genjutsu disrupts normal chakra flow, it might even crash Sage Mode all together with an illusion. Sage Mode is an ability grasped by people with a big chakra pool and chakra control, this is good to break regular genjutsu, as i said, but Sharingans Genjutsu are a blood lined ability, and these blood lined abilities seem to have no actual limit in their power and effect (as far as we've seen).
Sasuke will still probably develop his eyes to the Ethernal Mangekyou Sharingan, remember that

There's other points besides Gejutsu, how is Naruto gonna dodge Amaterasu and/or Kirin? Raikage used Body Flicker Jutsu and, well, sacrificed an hand to do this, but Naruto doesn't use such a jutsu, Danzo was caught and killed, also reborn, he is 72 year old geezer with enough knowledge about everything, still, he had to use Izanagi.

Although this battle won't happen in a while, it's all just theory and speculation

Zetsu did say that naruto was stronger then sasuke after naruto killed pain, but that was before sasuke showed that he had the power to use susanoo, witch zetsu said susanoo made the user invincible because the sheild could block any attack and the sword sealed anything into and ever lasting genjutsu. i dont know about you, but that sounds pretty unstopable. and for those who said that naruto is stronger because of the nine tails, i dont think it is a factor because sasuke already showed he was powerful enough to suppress it when naruto and sasuke first saw each other in shippuden, before he had the mangekyo.

Sage mode Naruto or Mangeyo Sharingan Sasuke:

Definitely Mangekyo Sharingan Sasuke.Sasuke would win quite simply because he is the better ninja(stronger,smarter,etc.)Sasuke excells in ninjutsu,taijutsu,and genjutsu.Sage Mode Naruto is strong,but it is not enough to defeat Sasuke.Sasuke has Amaterasu,Kirin,Susanoo,etc. which are among the strongest jutsus in Naruto.Like I said,Sage Mode is strong,but it won't be enough to go up against an opponent like Sasuke.Even if Naruto was physically stronger than Sasuke,which he isn't,Sasuke would still win because he vastly outshines Naruto in the intelligence category.Sasuke has the ability to carefully analyze an opponent,spot their weakness quickly,and bring them down.Naruto can't do that,and even if he could,Sasuke can do it faster and more accurately.So to put it simply,if they were to fight,Sasuke would easily be the victor.

I don't care that Naruto beat Pain,Sasuke could have beaten him.And Naruto probably woudn't win against the Raikage either.If he did,it would only be thanks to the Nine-Tails.And even if Naruto didn't use the Nine-Tails and he just beat him with Sage Mode,it still doesn't mean anything.I've already explained,even if Naruto had more physical strength,which he doesn't,Sasuke is just an overall better,more talented ninja.He's smarter and more skilled than Naruto will ever be.I'm speaking from a logical sense,as in no one can win just for the plot.I'm simply speaking of who is stronger,not who will win to fit with the story.If Naruto were to win,it would be thanks to the Nine-Tailed Fox,and the power from Itachi.That obviously doesn't make Naruto stronger than Sasuke because it's not Naruto's power.With his power alone,and not using someone else's,Naruto could not win against Sasuke.

Sasuke summoned Manda,yeah-that's not 'leeching'.I didn't say anything about Naruto summoning Gamabunta,becuase that's not what I'm talking about.Summoning jutsu isn't leeching.Sasuke learned from Orochimaru,and Naruto learned from Jiraiya-neither of them are 'leeching',they both learned the jutsu and they use it.The Nine-Tailed Fox and Itachi's power are of course 'leeching' because neither of them are Naruto's power in any sort of way.Learning a jutsu and flat out using somebody else's power are two different things.As for Sasuke's Mangekyo Sharingan-not the same thing.That is his kekkai genkai,it was technically 'given' to him by Itachi,but like I said it's not the same thing.If Naruto had a kekkai genkai,I wouldn't have counted it because it would have been his power.

I think Sasuke is a god.Some people are sayng :'Sasuke wins because of luck'? That's your reasoning? You mention the fight with the Raikage,but like I said Naruto would have been obliterated going up against the Raikage,UNLESS he called upon the Nine-Tailed Fox,like he always does.I'm not being irrational,the truth is the truth.Sasuke is stronger and he always will be.

On more than one occasion,Sasuke has almost killed Naruto.In part 1 he would have killed him but he SPARED his life.In part 2,he defeated Naruto without even trying.Naruto was on the ground,barely able to move within seconds.He was completely pathetic and useless in that 'battle',even though it can barely be called that considering how quickly he was defeated.He needed Sai and later Orochimaru to save him.That's what happens when he doesn't use the Nine-Tailed Fox.Naruto,Yamato,and Sakura would have all died that day if Sasuke wasn't interrupted.Naruto even used the Nine-Tailed Fox in the battle in part 1,and Sasuke STILL beat him.In the battle in part 2,Sasuke easily beat him,Sakura,AND Yamato.Orochimaru came to their rescue.There are two examples.

some people are saying Naruto comes up with one good plan,and they put him on the same level as Shikamaru?That is utterly ridiculous.Sasuke is a genius,and he's proved it time and time again.I know Naruto beat Pain,but that obviously doesn't make him any stronger than Sasuke considering Sasuke could have defeated him as well.And like I've mentioned,Naruto would have lost to the Raikage.Naruto is a pathetic weakling compared to Sasuke.That's the way it is,always was,and always will be.

I'm not biased.I know you think I am,but what I'm saying has nothing to do with my personal opinion on Sasuke.My entire answer has nothing to with my overall opinion on either character.Believe what you want,but my answer is based on facts and nothing else.

Naruto suprassed Minato and Jiraiya:

Sasuke vs. Jiraiya:Jiraiya would die.

I think Sasuke has surpassed the Fourth and Jiraiya. Yes,I do. If Jiraiya and Sasuke fought,Sasuke would have easily come out the victor-no question.As for the Fourth,yes I do happen to believe that Sasuke could have defeated him as well.

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"Only a Sharingan user with the same blood as me can defeat me."

You kinda said to different things here. . .

And in the battle in part 1, the only way Sasuke won over Naruto, was because of the Curse Mark transformation, as well as Naruto wins over his opponents with the Nine Tails power.

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How can I ever be Hokage, if I can't even save one friend?
Isn't that right Sasuke?

sasuke_, i think you are on the money, but your overlooking a few things on your rationality.

First the Nine-Tailed-Fox is Narutos, it doesn't matter if it's a seperate power. It's his, he will use it when it's time to do so. There is no such thing as a given power, you either chose to use it, or you don't. It's like saying a gun isn't valid in a fist fight, if one pulls a gun, triggers it and shoots the adversary, he still won, no matter how much moral you fit into a discussion of this kind.
So when analysing one character, do analyse it as a whole.

Minato is the strongest dead character, and this was stated by Kishimoto a few years back. When Kakashi said that Naruto surpassed the Forth, it was in reference to the Rasengan skill ALONE. All you have to notice, on this particular, is how the Third pissed his pants when he saw the coffin . Even if you argument that Tobi-Madara beat Minato, he lost, his objective wasn't acomplished.

Naruto without Nine Tails Vs Sasuke without the Curse Mark transformation=Sasuke's win in 3 minutes.




Naruto never "learned" the Nine-Tailed-Fox that is given power.

Kishamoto never said that Minato is the strongest he just put him in the same league with Sandaime.
Here is interview:

http://naruto-spoilers.blogspot.com/200 ... about.html

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"Only a Sharingan user with the same blood as me can defeat me."

it's the same as i said O_o...

And of course Naruto will surpasse him, eventualy, he hasn't yet, he did in the makings of a stronger Rasengan, which was what Kakashi mentioned, the Sage Mode speed isn't near the Thunder Flash that Minato used.


You seem to have missed the point with what i was saying. If you analyse a character, you can't remove the tools it has, regardless if it's a given power or not, it will be a biased aproach. I still think Sasuke is a step foward then Naruto is atm, and i'm counting his Kyuubi powers.

Questions that can be applied such as:
Can Naruto dodge Amaterasu?
Can Naruto dodge Kirin?
Can Naruto break trough Susanoo's defense?
All the answers are no, imo, with some doubt on the last one, given that Rasenshruinken acts on a molecular level, and maybe go trough Susanoo, yet it doubt it.

Can Naruto break out of Tsukyoumi or any Sharingan Genjutsu?
Maybe, but unlikely.

Why are this god damn threads in the Shippuden area, i refuse to use the damn spoilers bracets every time, for heavens sake.

To each his own. I agree that sasuke is an incredible strong ninja. I think both him AND naruto have surpassed orochimaru, jaraiya, 4th hokage, 3rd hokage, all of akatsuki (save for tobi), tsunade, kakashi, ect. at this point the only ninjas who I honestly feel were stronger then either of them is Madara, the 1st, and tobi (I put tobi aside because even though I believe he is madara it is at this point undecided so I will count him as an individual) But I don't see how anyone who actually reads the manga could honestly say "Naruto is a pathetic weakling compared to Sasuke" In the fight at the valley of the end sasuke literally had to increase the level of his sharingan mid fight in order to defeat naruto, they are both incredible ninjas who are constantly making large leaps ahead of everyone in strength. As far as naruto being an idiot I think that is a thing of the past. he has used calculated strategies in many of his fights and they have lead to victory. against kakazu he was able to judge exactly the perfect combo to hit him with his rasen shurikan after just sending in three shadow clones to judge his fighting style. against pain he was able to use the intel givin in order to defeat a man capable of destroying the largest of the five great villages by himself, and then after defeating the six paths he was able to track down the main body and convince him through talking to change the core of who he was and in turn save the life of everyone in the village. he has proven time and time again that he is intelligent and capable of completing any task handed to him through shear willpower and hard work.

As far as disqualifying him for being gifted his strength I see no basis for it. For one he hasn't been gifted any more then sasuke has. Before Using MS sasuke relied on the curse mark as a primary tool for fighting. now that he has MS he relies on his sharingan. both are tools given to him by orochimaru and itachi. But that doesn't matter, both of them simply use the tools given to them. Naruto has the nine tails which any way you look at it is an advantage. but that was a gift given to him as a baby from his father, In my opinion that makes it just as much his right to use it as sasuke has the right to use his sharingan. And currently naruto doesn't use it, in fact he goes through great lengths not to rely on the power of the nine tails. when I say naruto is stronger then sasuke I believe he is even without the nine tails to rely on. But again I want to say that while I do believe him to be stronger, I don't think it is by a landslide. both these ninjas are leaps and bounds above anyone else from their generation. they are true rivals who stand on nearly equal ground. and throughout the story they have each been in the position of "strongest ninja" during the chunnin exam it was naruto who defeated gaara, not sasuke. sasuke was as outclassed in that fight as naruto was when him, sai, and sakura encountered sasuke in orochimarus hideout.

So in short I agree with you on the level of sasuke, I just don't agree when people say naruto isn't at the same level.

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I'm not saying that Naruto isn't strong but compared with Sasuke he will always be weaker.
Even If he beat him in the battle that will be only for happy end.Sasuke already showed twice that he is pretty much stronger from naruto.


we can't compare Sasuke with Naruto,Sasuke was born with sharingan and Naruto wasn't born with with the Nine-Tails.

If we compare Naruto without Nine tails like I said "Naruto is a pathetic weakling compared to Sasuke".With 9 tails again I think that Sasuke is stronger.

I agree That naruto was stronger from Sasuke on the chunnin exam but from the moment when Sasuke left Konoha he become God.


But also kishi said that sandaime is strong like him.

I like this part:
As far as living shinobis goes... well, without going into many details I'd have to say no. There's a couple of shinobis whose stronger than him.

I really wanna know who are they a couple of shinobis whose stronger than him.

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"Only a Sharingan user with the same blood as me can defeat me."

I can agree that its debatable on which is stronger. You have sound logic in your reasons for why sasuke is stronger, but I'll always disagree . I stand by my opinion that naruto is currently the stronger of the two. Also that he has the largest "container" and is destined to be the strongest in the ninja world. I think he is close to achieving his ultimate potential, He has unlocked the strongest attacks I believe he will unlock without relying on the nine tails chakra. and once he learns to fight as a true tailed beast host he will surpass all other ninjas. Its to bad him and sasuke are destined to be rivals cause together they could really accomplish anything they wanted. Those two will always break down any barrier placed before them. We will just have to wait and see how the final showdown plays out

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