At least Kishimoto gave Kisame some incredible last shots.



How epic is this one?
It's like his resolve is increasing each panel after he already exceeded everyone at the end of ch. 507.

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Roflkopt3r's Messy Picture Shop - Colourisations and Others

I think you don't get the true essence of epic here. Kisame was usually known as a blood thirsty ninja who would go on a massacre. Many members even speculated his ulterior motives for joining Akatsuki is absorbing all the Bijuus' power in his Samehada and become a super power. I was very much with their opinion till "Kisame Vs Guy" happened. We come to see, however stone-hearted Kisame was, he still respected Tobi/Madara and was ready to give his life for the sake of Akatsuki. Just tell me, how many people were this loyal to Akatsuki ? I would say no one. That's what makes his death an epic. Moreover, his mission was never to survive. His mission was to act as a spy. He completed his mission successfully and died a hero for Akatsuki. His death was on par with Jiraya who too died a death after collecting all the info. about the enemy.

Its not the nature of the fight that states whether a death is epic or not. Its about whether a shinobi completes his assigned task before dying. In case, Kisame wouldn't have set the "booby trap" in his scroll, probably, he would have died for nothing. He died without letting down Tobi and successfully completed his mission. That's what makes his death an epic...





I think its not a typo. Its just like telling Sharingan-Kakashi or Byakugan-Neji.. Similarly he told Rinnegan-Nagato. Just prefixing the Kekkai Genkai of the person before his name...

I don't think Konan is Nagato and stuff. That just complicates things beyond imagination for me.

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Regards,
krishna.kumar

very well said.

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Before his Epic death he was nothing but a butcher of his brethren and another Akatsuki freak. By dying the way he did. Defending his comrades by not providing information to the enemy, braking free and choosing death before betrayal, and even as a last act of defiance fulfilling his mission by sending his collected intel back to Akatsuki, By doing so he died like a True Shinobi, and he also showed the deep respect and admiration that he felt towards Itachi, so like Hitori said so briefely. VERY WELL SAID.

"...epic..."

I could quote you all... just imagine that I did.

When so many people rant about this detail in fairness one has to re-assess whether one got it wrong or if the masses are totally wrong. Unfortunately for me, I am wrong. It was indeed epic. Because until now I had a limited view about the word "epic". Only now it's clear to me that it was employed here as "heroic". It can define however something that goes for length or size in an impressive way and that is how I use the word "epic" normally. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

However, I feel like I have to make something clear. I do not have a beef with the actual death/suicide of Kisame. I am fine with that. I do however have a huge problem with the process that led us to that event.

If you read my previous posts (and again this is still something that I refuse to accept) the only thing that I profoundly dislike is the fight between Guy and Kisame and for sure Kisame did not deserve to be destroyed like that. Let me remind you what I wrote.



Kisame was a very interesting Akatsuki (most of them were in my opinion) and therefore I do not like this stretch of the manga (the issues that cover his fight with Guy). Pure and simple.

Hope all is clear now. Lets see what 509 brings us.

chungadaddy I think that you have blatantly under estimated Maito Gai and his Taijutsu. The fact that he has been considered Kakashi arch-rival speaks tons by itself. Personally I think Kakashi lacks chakra stamina to be a Kage level ninja, but the five kages themselves consider him at that level as well as Jiraya, Tsunade, Shikaku and Danzo. Itachi himself adviced Kisame not to take Gai lightly, that was not flattering he just acknowledged him as a very powerful ninja opponent and keep in mind that he was not passive like Asuma and Kurenai he was in combat mood. Roflkopt3r even ratchet it up one notch when he said:"Very sad that this interesting character dies and guys like Gai are still alive"

The 8 gates opening in my opinion is a very powerful technique that can't be used lightly because exerts a very powerful toll on his user's life maybe by shortening it, just like some of those Nagato's jutsus. Kishi has dedicated an incredible amount of screen time to Sasuke but there are still some other very powerful characters on this manga like Gai and Hyuuga Hiashi of which we basically don't know anything. Of course this is just my opinion.

When Sage Naruto punched the Pain realm that was on his way to attack Tsunade. He basically obliterated him, was not just a punch, was a punch in Sage Mode. The Same rule applies to Gai Air punch when applied with his 8 gates fully opened.

509 is late
They say during nighttime/morning in pacific daylight time, that's -8h from CET so it should be 2:42am over there... hope they're done soon. (This am/pm stuff is so annoying when one is used to a 24-hour-system ^^)

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Roflkopt3r's Messy Picture Shop - Colourisations and Others

The manga is already out I bought it yesterday, (the japanese edition here in Korea), what we all have been waiting for is the scanlation to english and other languages.

Yep that's what I'm waiting for. I don't understand any japanese. A rough exeption are those single few words beeing repeated over and over again in the anime while standing allone. If I had watched as many Italian episodes I'ld most likely speak italian by now but Japanese is too foreign in everything to get a clear understanding of it just by hearing it
(It still almost sounds like a stream of random letters to me, the only progress is that I can distinguish it from chinese and korean by now )
Reading it is very different anyways since I couldn't memorize any characters beside that one for "fire" maybe that's used in Konoha and the fire country ^^

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Roflkopt3r's Messy Picture Shop - Colourisations and Others

But that was not the last of it right? Pain did not simply lose and that was all that there was to it right? Kisame was an extremely resourceful ninja. Hitori pointed out and very well (as you did as well) that Guy was the best match possible. And again just like you said it may be that we are not seeing the side effect of opening so many gates. But I still did not like the fight . All other Akatsuki had their good fights: Deidara had Sasuke in a pinch, Sasori had Sakura in a pinch, the fight between Shikamaru and Hidan was delicious, Kakuzu had an entire team working him to the end, Itachi... well we all know about Itachi... and then we have Kisame, the tailed beats without a tailed beast... who lost in a single move against Guy... It seems like they were in a hurry to get to his honourable death... it is like he was just a nuisance, a means to make a point... Do you understand my disappointment? I know I am rambling just like some1 (I don't know who any more) was rambling about Orochimaru and his powers... I guess I found Kisame so interesting that I simply wanted more. I wanted Kisame's fight with Guy to last a couple of issues and then sure... whatever... Guy wins... but not like this. OK. I promise I will stop my rambling now.

Hmmm.. I agree that Kisame Vs Guy was a disastrous fight for Kisame as Guy made little work out of Kisame. But, Kisame never heard Itachi's warnings. He underestimated Guy greatly and tried to win without Samehada, hence paid the price. If Kisame had fused with Samehada before fight then, it would have been a totally different scenario..

But, I think Kisame knew his death was near as he was surrounded by many powerful ninjas, namely, 2 perfect jinchuurikis, Mokuton user and Might Guy. Therefore, he just wanted to send the info. to Akatsuki. Hence, he used most of his chakra creating the booby trap scroll and was nearly at his limit when fighting Might Guy.

Whatever we all say, Kisame surely died a death befitting a shinobi, though the fight he fought was no near an epic...

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Regards,
krishna.kumar

Now I finally catch your drift and you are not rambling at all, there is nothing wrong with venting your frustration or disappointment with the direction of the Manga; I am a hard core fan of the Byakuugan Doutjutsu myself which has been extremely underexposed. But now that I see where you are coming from I have to agree with you that Kisame was deserving of a more "epic fight" not just an "epic death". Nevertheless there are still few points to consider.

1.- We don't know for how long Kisame was blended with Samaheda, days? weeks? maybe months? Which means he could not transform to his true self without being detected by strong sensors, which translates in no proper eating, no exercise, no training. Proof of that was the shape he was in when he got out from the fountain.

2.- He received a very powerful and enraged punch from Sage-Kyuubi Naruto which no doubts was exponentially more powerful than the one Sage Naruto used on one of Pain Realms. Yet he survived the punch and kept going.

3.- Is true he was considered a Bijuu without a tail but had he not used Samehada to feed himself with the chackra he drained from Killer B, he would not had a single chance to get away 100 meters.

4.- By his final attack to Gai there should be no doubts that Taijutsu was the only way to fight such a formidable opponent. Had he been yielding Samehada he could have tap some of its chakra reservoir (Sage Naruto was a Match for that but Kyuubi Naruto uses a chackra shield, so there is no way to know how his Giant Shark Misile would have done against Super Sayaan Naruto)

5.- He fought a well rested, energetic and full of youth Gai (which once again, in my opinion could have fought him at his best shape). So basically the fight had to be short, still I think and reiterate that he had an "epic death" deserving of a true shinobi.

To krishna.kumar and Sergiazo, those were very good points. Thank you. It did make me see things a bit differently now. Still disappointed... but getting better ^^

I think I agree with you though, it would have been cool to see kisame go down with much more of a fight. Story wise I totally understand why he lost the way he did, and why he was in that situation. But after all the cool stuff he did I definitely expected more of a fight from his final battle.

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To Hitori, chungadaddy and Roflkopt3r. I am posting this info because I think is good, informative and relevant to the subject that we have been talking about in this threat. All credits belongs to a fellow blogger called Psukkar, so Big Kudos to him.

Eight Chakra Gate Manipulation:

"I thought someone should start a thread about this long forgotten EPIC power up, that's right the 8 chakra gates. So lets get started.

The Eight Gates are eight specific points on a person's Chakra Pathway System. They limit the chakra flow to the tenketsu(361 holes,Width of a needle) scattered all over your body. This makes the body much weaker, but the limit is there to stop deteriorating the body with excess chakra flow. Opening the gates, the user can surpass their own physical limits at the cost of extreme damage to their own bodies. Just like sage mode opening the chakra gates amplifies one's attributes, the stronger/faster naturally you are the more potent the results will be when the gates are opened. Also enhancing your natural stamina would allow the user to maintain the opened gate for longer periods of time and the recovery time afterwards will be quicker(As seen by Gai after the Kisame clone encounter he recovered quite quickly considering he opened 6/8 gates). This is why we see Gai and Lee go through intense physical training regimes to take advantage as much as possible of the strength/speed boosts when opening the chakra gates.

If all eight gates are opened this will grant the user power greater than a kage but this has a high chance of resulting in death.

http://manga.naruto-tv.com/naruto/085/10


(1) Open Gate
As it's located in the brain it removes the restraints the brain has on the body.

Unlocking this gate allows the user to use the Front Lotus. The Front Lotus gives the user five times their normal physical strength. The user launches the opponent into the air(via Shadow of the Dancing Leaf epic in itself), once behind the opponent the user restrains them and piledrives them into the ground headfirst while rotating at a ferocious speed.

(2) Energy Gate
Also located in the brain, this further forcibly increases one's physical strength and temporary heals the body.

(3) Life Gate
located on the spinal cord and increases blood flow to the muscles to allow your muscles to be pushed to the limits for chakra gates 4 and 5. The increased blood flow turns the users skin dark red. At this point a green chakra can be visually seen around the users body.

The user is able to use the Reverse Lotus, this an advanced and more destructive version of the Front Lotus. Which requires at least three chakra gates be opened but in every instance in which it has been used, five gates are opened probably to make use of the muscle enhancements in chakra gates 4 and 5 to make the technique even more destructive.

This is usually fatal due to the speed and power behind the attack but because so many chakra gates are opened at once it potentially only can be used once, since the user will mostly likely be unable to stand afterwards. But Gai has shown through intense physical training such drawbacks can be avoided.

(4) Wound Gate
Located on the spinal cord and increases the user's speed(via their muscles) and chakra flow(still green) . This may cause muscle tissue to tear depending how well the muscles are developed. This another case where Gai has avoided this drawback through intense physical training. For example when lee opened this gate(during the chuuin exams) his muscles teared while Gai on the other hand opened the sixth gate(basically a more potent version of the 4th gate) and was physically unharmed, he only experienced exhaustion due to the stamina loss.

(5) Forest gate
Located in the abdomen and further increases the user's speed and chakra flow (still green). Normally the reverse lotus is now executed for best results.

(6) View Gate
Located in the stomach and further increases the user's speed and chakra flow (still green). The chakra flow and speed increases are now very significant at this point, such that large amounts of chakra is released and can cause nearby water bodies to form a vortex around the user.

Gai's movements were supersonic(speed of sound in air) no were near as fast the wrap speed from time-space techniques(Speed of light) but definitely this is one the fastest physical movement we have seen in the series to date. Gai more or less covered half the island in a matter of seconds.

Due to the extreme speeds the users movements are so fast they set ablaze from the friction in the air. This allows the user to perform the Morning Peacock, the Morning Peacock is more or a less a certain-kill if you connect. The user launches the victim in the air then jumps into the air in a distinctive stance and begins punching the enemy repeatedly. This creates a peacock-like fan of flaming chakra around the opponent. Once the attack is finished, the enemy will be sent crashing back to the ground, covered with the attack's aura.

(7) Wonder Gate
Located below the stomach and further increases the user's speed and chakra flow but in this case the chakra is blue.

Most likely the speed and chakra flow boosts are even more significant than the previous gate. Gai hasn't shown us how fast/strong he is in the 7th gate as of yet.

The user is able to use Daytime Tiger, nothing is known about this technique but the flames caused my Gai's movements look like a tiger. Gai also says this technique makes the morning peacock nothing in comparison and says this a one hit kill.

(8) Death Gate
located at the heart, releasing this gate uses up all of the body's energy. It makes the heart pump at maximum power and exceeds the power of every other gate. Obviously the speed and chakra flow will be off the charts again, also the the chakra color may change also other than that we can't speculate more about the gate.

On a different note I'm pretty sure the move you do when you open the 8th will have a "evening" in the name. Because there's a very high chance of dying when you open the 8th gate the symbolism of Morning,
Afternoon and Evening symbolizes your day has come so to speak. I think this is the symbolism kishi is using with the eight gates or at least with Gai anyway.

I guess the only question is, Evening "what"

I think it will be Evening "Dragon".

Conclusions

All the times we've seen someone open the gates it just said the gate was opened and they get ready for the next gate if needs be. But do you think the user can control how much the gate opens? For example instead of simply opening the gate completely(100%) can you open it at 50%. I think this would allow the user maintain chakra gate manipulation for longer periods of time which can be important against an opponents of similar strength and speed in which case the fight will be prolonged, so far most the opponents have been completely overwhelmed and the fight quickly ends.

Rock Lee is able to open the 1-5 gates before the time skip, he may be able to open more now after the time skip. Also Lee's respective moves in the 6th,7th and 8th gates they may not be the same as Gai's. It seems to me the user can utilize the speed and strength in different ways and Gai may just wanted to show off the heat from his speed in different ways like a peacock fan, tiger etc..

Might Guy, who taught Lee the skill, is able to open at least seven. He by the far is the best user and seems to be able to recover very well from the stamina loss and not physically injuring himself. It would be interesting to know what his 8th gate can do. But he would mostly likely die, although we really don't know 100% you would die, it not like we have seen anyone open the eighth gate or has anyone for that matter. Maybe no one really knows what happens when you open the eighth gate. It's possible shinobi assumed given what the 7th gate's drawbacks, they imagined you would most likely die if you opened the 8th gate.

Kakashi can open at least one gate, as shown during Kakashi's one-handed rock climbing where a shot of his brain shows the relevant point activating, as well as in his usage of the Front Lotus. But its pretty obvious at this point he doesn't use it for combat like Gai does. This is mostly likely due to his low stamina and has a hard time recovering if opened the higher level gates(4 and onwards). Kakashi did also mentioned you need to be "genius(whatever that means)" to open the 5th gate. "

I hope you guys enjoy his article.

That was a pretty cool post to read. After reading that I think gai might be able to open the 8th gate and not die, he'd probably just be in the state that lee was in after opening 5 gates. So out of commission for a while, but not dead!

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Most certainly did! That was very good info! Maybe there should a thread opening with "relevant information", properly documented! Is there something like that already?!

We knew that Madara wanted the Rinnegan long before this:D

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These eyes can see fine in the darkness

This Topic Is Still Active :O

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I don't know why this is still active. I am closing this topic as its past. If you want to discuss anything about this topic discuss it by starting a new thread and link it to this topic.

It seriously gave me a Heart-Attack to see a "new" Naruto chapter on Sunday...

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Regards,
krishna.kumar